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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Growing Older</title>
	<atom:link href="http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/</link>
	<description>The world through a critical eye</description>
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		<title>By: Houstonia</title>
		<link>http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Houstonia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-538</guid>
		<description>stumbled across this blog entry and loved it.  :-)

I&#039;m a proud 42, almost 43 year old.  I&#039;m  divorcing my 29 year old husband of less than a year - almost completely due to his immaturity.  Well.. it was my immaturity to agree to get married, but I digress... 2 months after we married, he decided he wanted &quot;his freedom&quot; and that I was keeping him a prisoner.  At the point of my life where I&#039;m happy with myself (finally), with my job, my home, my cats, my &quot;place in life&quot;, living with him was like handing over the wheel to a drunk driver!  

It turns out that in HIS culture (central american), after the age of 30, if you are not married, if you do not have children - you are basically &quot;weird&quot; or a failure.  I recently had one of his relatives tell me to 1)stop thinking about going out dancing (too old) 2) stop thinking about having children (according to her, after 30 is too old), 3)stop thinking about marrying (too old) and to generally be more mature and stop living (in my opinion)!

It&#039;s depressing how our media promotes youth, but it&#039;s encouraging how our culture encourages us to be individual - not condemning if we choose to not follow the patterns shown by the media.  However, in my husband&#039;s home country - they have the media promoting youth, and the society as well.  For what it&#039;s worth - over 50% of the population is UNDER the age of 30 - so that explains his desperation to get all his &quot;living&quot; in in the next five months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stumbled across this blog entry and loved it.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a proud 42, almost 43 year old.  I&#8217;m  divorcing my 29 year old husband of less than a year &#8211; almost completely due to his immaturity.  Well.. it was my immaturity to agree to get married, but I digress&#8230; 2 months after we married, he decided he wanted &#8220;his freedom&#8221; and that I was keeping him a prisoner.  At the point of my life where I&#8217;m happy with myself (finally), with my job, my home, my cats, my &#8220;place in life&#8221;, living with him was like handing over the wheel to a drunk driver!  </p>
<p>It turns out that in HIS culture (central american), after the age of 30, if you are not married, if you do not have children &#8211; you are basically &#8220;weird&#8221; or a failure.  I recently had one of his relatives tell me to 1)stop thinking about going out dancing (too old) 2) stop thinking about having children (according to her, after 30 is too old), 3)stop thinking about marrying (too old) and to generally be more mature and stop living (in my opinion)!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s depressing how our media promotes youth, but it&#8217;s encouraging how our culture encourages us to be individual &#8211; not condemning if we choose to not follow the patterns shown by the media.  However, in my husband&#8217;s home country &#8211; they have the media promoting youth, and the society as well.  For what it&#8217;s worth &#8211; over 50% of the population is UNDER the age of 30 &#8211; so that explains his desperation to get all his &#8220;living&#8221; in in the next five months.</p>
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		<title>By: Anita</title>
		<link>http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-202</guid>
		<description>from a 46 year old... write on :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from a 46 year old&#8230; write on <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: psipsina</title>
		<link>http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>psipsina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 02:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-92</guid>
		<description>Kathryn, thanks for coming by and provoking me, with your thoughtful comment, to think harder.  I like people who make me think harder.  I really enjoyed my first view or your blog today and plan to keep coming back.

I don&#039;t think we disagree, fundamentally, though we differ in the details.  What I&#039;m reacting to is this expectation that I ought to want to relive the Glory Days of My Youth, as if there&#039;s no dignity in Middle Age.  And that seems to me to be the problem with Rob Gordon and his Top Five lists - he&#039;s stuck in the past.  I myself only married last year, so I understand doing what&#039;s right WHEN it&#039;s right.  Sometimes stasis can be useful.  I can even admit that retrograde motion can be therapeutic at certain times - this is the pillar, after all, that some schools of psychotherapy are built on.      But the notion that we are all always looking back on some fabled past irks me - the chief use of my past is that it is the foundation on which the present rests.

Believe it or not, I adore teenagers, at least the ones I know well.  Maybe it&#039;s because I remember my own teens so clearly and painfully, I just don&#039;t want to be one.

Maybe I should give &lt;i&gt;High Fidelity&lt;/i&gt; another shot.  Maybe I was too hard on Rob because I had just broken up with my own 5-year partner, a man who was superficially nothing like Rob but exactly like him in all the ways that counted.

I am not a Christian, and I am even more so not a fan of St. Paul, but I think he&#039;s spot on when he says that when a child becomes a man, he puts aside his childish ways.  I think that&#039;s true even if the child grows up to be a woman!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathryn, thanks for coming by and provoking me, with your thoughtful comment, to think harder.  I like people who make me think harder.  I really enjoyed my first view or your blog today and plan to keep coming back.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we disagree, fundamentally, though we differ in the details.  What I&#8217;m reacting to is this expectation that I ought to want to relive the Glory Days of My Youth, as if there&#8217;s no dignity in Middle Age.  And that seems to me to be the problem with Rob Gordon and his Top Five lists &#8211; he&#8217;s stuck in the past.  I myself only married last year, so I understand doing what&#8217;s right WHEN it&#8217;s right.  Sometimes stasis can be useful.  I can even admit that retrograde motion can be therapeutic at certain times &#8211; this is the pillar, after all, that some schools of psychotherapy are built on.      But the notion that we are all always looking back on some fabled past irks me &#8211; the chief use of my past is that it is the foundation on which the present rests.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, I adore teenagers, at least the ones I know well.  Maybe it&#8217;s because I remember my own teens so clearly and painfully, I just don&#8217;t want to be one.</p>
<p>Maybe I should give <i>High Fidelity</i> another shot.  Maybe I was too hard on Rob because I had just broken up with my own 5-year partner, a man who was superficially nothing like Rob but exactly like him in all the ways that counted.</p>
<p>I am not a Christian, and I am even more so not a fan of St. Paul, but I think he&#8217;s spot on when he says that when a child becomes a man, he puts aside his childish ways.  I think that&#8217;s true even if the child grows up to be a woman!</p>
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		<title>By: kathryn</title>
		<link>http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>kathryn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-89</guid>
		<description>A most happy birthday to you! :)

The main character in High Fidelity annoyed me sometimes, but I viewed the movie as a man&#039;s progression from immaturity to adulthood. He recognizes something&#039;s wrong in his life, in his relationship to women. Of course, the fact his girlfriend left him precipitated this process, but at least THIS time he took notice and began self-examination. In the end he does change. So the conclusion of the movie supports the end result you&#039;d like to see. It tells the story of an immature man growing up, and so I didn&#039;t see it as a glorification of youth. Better late than never.

There are assumptions underlying some of what you write that puzzle me. Of course, when speaking generally of a group or cultural tendency, sweeping statements are the norm. But here&#039;s an example: the equation of immaturity and unstable relationships and the conclusion that this is an indicator of arrested development and is pitiable.

I met my husband when I was 36. Prior to that I&#039;d had a five-year relationship in my early 20s and a number of other relationships following. Until I met my husband (whom I did not marry until age 42), I had not met anyone I felt inclined to commit to, in part because the relationships were ultimately not healthy. It took me some time to identify what healthy love could be, decide what I wanted in a relationship, and to believe I deserved it. Does meeting someone and establishing a marriage in one&#039;s 20s prove maturity? What about all those folks who marry young and divorce and repeat several more times? Or those marriages that began young and break up at 20 or 25 years because the spouses don&#039;t feel connected anymore, or because their looming mortality catapults them into a crisis of trying to recapture youth? 

Perhaps I relate to the character because in fact my life was in flux for most of my 20s and 30s. My income was low, I struggled to make ends meet, I could not afford to attend college from 18-22 and instead graduated with my BA at 30 and a masters at 36 while working full-time in &quot;make do&quot; jobs. For many reasons I was a &quot;late bloomer&quot; -- there were numerous obstacles to overcome. People comment often that I seem much younger than my age, and sometimes I do feel this. After all, I&#039;m just now getting around to starting a family at age 44. Is this all an indicator of arrested development? Maybe. In many ways I felt over the years a sense of not having &quot;arrived.&quot; Is that pitiable? Sometimes I&#039;m tempted to pity myself. Just think of what I could have accomplished in my life if only I&#039;d... (had parents who supported my dreams, didn&#039;t grow up with zero self-confidence because of family dynamics, been more focused in my studies, been able to decide what I wanted to be when I grew up much sooner). But this doesn&#039;t change the past and robs me of my life now. And in fact, all that I&#039;ve experienced contributed to my becoming an empathetic therapist. My life has value, even if it took a circuitous route toward &quot;maturity.&quot;

I agree that our culture glorifies youth and despises age. I&#039;d like to see that change. I can imagine, too, that if one feels squeezed by a cultural norm such as the worship of youth, one might feel judgment and anger toward youths at birthday time. What I&#039;d like to see in our culture is an avoidance of both sides shouting judgment at each other and instead developing appreciation and relationship. You point out that people older than you can be condescending too. These heels-dug-in positions are ultimately unhelpful. BTW, have you come across Ronni Bennett&#039;s blog, Time Goes By? She writes about what it&#039;s really like to get older. Sometimes when she needs to vent she writes from the persona of &quot;Crabby Old Lady.&quot; You might enjoy her.

I promise never to call you a senior anything, though. I&#039;d like to keep my teeth for many more years too! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A most happy birthday to you! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The main character in High Fidelity annoyed me sometimes, but I viewed the movie as a man&#8217;s progression from immaturity to adulthood. He recognizes something&#8217;s wrong in his life, in his relationship to women. Of course, the fact his girlfriend left him precipitated this process, but at least THIS time he took notice and began self-examination. In the end he does change. So the conclusion of the movie supports the end result you&#8217;d like to see. It tells the story of an immature man growing up, and so I didn&#8217;t see it as a glorification of youth. Better late than never.</p>
<p>There are assumptions underlying some of what you write that puzzle me. Of course, when speaking generally of a group or cultural tendency, sweeping statements are the norm. But here&#8217;s an example: the equation of immaturity and unstable relationships and the conclusion that this is an indicator of arrested development and is pitiable.</p>
<p>I met my husband when I was 36. Prior to that I&#8217;d had a five-year relationship in my early 20s and a number of other relationships following. Until I met my husband (whom I did not marry until age 42), I had not met anyone I felt inclined to commit to, in part because the relationships were ultimately not healthy. It took me some time to identify what healthy love could be, decide what I wanted in a relationship, and to believe I deserved it. Does meeting someone and establishing a marriage in one&#8217;s 20s prove maturity? What about all those folks who marry young and divorce and repeat several more times? Or those marriages that began young and break up at 20 or 25 years because the spouses don&#8217;t feel connected anymore, or because their looming mortality catapults them into a crisis of trying to recapture youth? </p>
<p>Perhaps I relate to the character because in fact my life was in flux for most of my 20s and 30s. My income was low, I struggled to make ends meet, I could not afford to attend college from 18-22 and instead graduated with my BA at 30 and a masters at 36 while working full-time in &#8220;make do&#8221; jobs. For many reasons I was a &#8220;late bloomer&#8221; &#8212; there were numerous obstacles to overcome. People comment often that I seem much younger than my age, and sometimes I do feel this. After all, I&#8217;m just now getting around to starting a family at age 44. Is this all an indicator of arrested development? Maybe. In many ways I felt over the years a sense of not having &#8220;arrived.&#8221; Is that pitiable? Sometimes I&#8217;m tempted to pity myself. Just think of what I could have accomplished in my life if only I&#8217;d&#8230; (had parents who supported my dreams, didn&#8217;t grow up with zero self-confidence because of family dynamics, been more focused in my studies, been able to decide what I wanted to be when I grew up much sooner). But this doesn&#8217;t change the past and robs me of my life now. And in fact, all that I&#8217;ve experienced contributed to my becoming an empathetic therapist. My life has value, even if it took a circuitous route toward &#8220;maturity.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree that our culture glorifies youth and despises age. I&#8217;d like to see that change. I can imagine, too, that if one feels squeezed by a cultural norm such as the worship of youth, one might feel judgment and anger toward youths at birthday time. What I&#8217;d like to see in our culture is an avoidance of both sides shouting judgment at each other and instead developing appreciation and relationship. You point out that people older than you can be condescending too. These heels-dug-in positions are ultimately unhelpful. BTW, have you come across Ronni Bennett&#8217;s blog, Time Goes By? She writes about what it&#8217;s really like to get older. Sometimes when she needs to vent she writes from the persona of &#8220;Crabby Old Lady.&#8221; You might enjoy her.</p>
<p>I promise never to call you a senior anything, though. I&#8217;d like to keep my teeth for many more years too! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Thoughts on Growing Older &#171; The Migraineur</title>
		<link>http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Thoughts on Growing Older &#171; The Migraineur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psipsina.wordpress.com/2007/07/11/thoughts-on-growing-older/#comment-88</guid>
		<description>[...] check out my latest post on my main blog, you know, the one where I talk about all the things in my life that have nothing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] check out my latest post on my main blog, you know, the one where I talk about all the things in my life that have nothing [...]</p>
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